To create an energy-efficient full recirculation system, your pump has to come with these two efficiency optimizing parts. One option is to put a relay/contactor between the Navien and the internal pump, so that that pump can only get power when the house is occupied. Recirculation Settings by pressing down the OK button. Always on checks in every 30 minutes and turns on the heat recirculation if the water is 9 degrees under the water goal temp. Should I keep my 5-year-old electric tank heater as a storage unit if I am about to install a new gas tankless heater? The cold water pipe coming from the wall goes into the domestic water inlet on the tankless heater, as it should. The 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors are used to connect the pump to your existing pipes. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. There are special tankless water heater recirculation pumps for Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units; we will cover them all. Can a Hot Water Recirculating Pump cause low water pressure? 1. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Both of those spots are problematic though. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? This propels the water to your faucet or shower much quicker. The circulation return needs to come from a loop at an end of the hot supply line. Therefore, the only task you can attempt on this list is the gasket replacement for the leaking water connection. The recirculation pump will make a squeaking noise if the installer fails to install the primary loop correctly. The only problem you have is there is no check valves in place check valves or like stop signs that direct traffic check valves, direct to flow of water. Are these pumps just a luxury that enables you to get hot water lightning fast, or do they actually save you money? Empties the water pipes so the next time youll need hot water fast, it will meet less resistance in the piping and it will arrive at the faucet in a matter of seconds. Most importantly, the installer fails to mount the pump on the vibration isolators. SEER = (1 EER100% + 42 EER75% + 45 EER50% + 12 EER25%)/100, Total Heat (BTU/hr.) Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Turn the unit off. Those are quite significant savings. Contents show An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. I noticed my apartment building installed one and at that time the whole water pressure was low. So, saving water is the main reason for calling a recirculation pump eco-friendly. 2. Lets look at the two most popular types: You can install hot water or tankless hot water recirculation pump in an existing or in a new home. You certainly dont want that, do you? We always take the pros vs. cons approach because nothing is perfect. If you are looking for a tankless water heater that can provide you with hot water 24/7, Navien water heater is the way to go. You can contact a plumber if necessary. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? Question: How is a water recirculating pump eco-friendly?Answer: The basic reason is, water recirculating pumps save water. Turning off your water recirculating pump reduces damage. It is important to note that recirculation pumps dont work continuously; they are used only when we open and close the faucet. Having a tankless water heater is an energy-efficient way of getting hot water. Hi Howy, well, the circulating pumps are usually powered by electricity, so they dont use gas. If you've got a tankless water heater installed that doesn't come with a built-in recirculation pump, then in such a scenario, a separate recirculation pump can do the trick for you. Allow it to dry and then fix it back. This serves two functions: This is also true for tankless water heaters. Nobody really likes waiting for the hot water to start flowing under the shower or doing the dishes, for example. Here is the final install. There are no error codes showing. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Then re-insert the filter and screw it back in place. Only 13 left in stock - order soon. Rather than using the hard wired door bell style push button that comes with the kit, I bought this remote control unit (. This is because the motherboard or control board is the units brain responsible for receiving and transmitting information in the heater. It is an indication that your warm water outlet thermistor has some problems. Hello David, well, the additional costs are a con here. This requires the installation of an additional water pipe. Manage Settings This chapter will reveal all the possible culprits that cause the recirculation pump of your Navien to make a humming noise. This might be a small installation error or a faulty setting. Hi Mike, we think about water as hot vs. cold. Or invest in a larger water heater. Think hot water loops returning to your boiler to get reheated (to stay hot) Think LOOPS!! Its clearly not always running as I can see it says standby on the display most of the time. Fortunately, Navien water heaters recycle hot water and always provide hot water. Locate the power button and press it to turn on the heater. When attempting a flush of the system, I shut off the hot and cold valves that lead into the heater. Both options use less energy than a continuously-running system. Apart from that, you can easily turn it on/off on your mobile whenever you wish. To understand this problem what I am talking about, you can watch this video: First off, I recommend you check the primary loop. There is a circulator pump, but it still takes a long time for hot water to reach the upstairs bathrooms. Once the tank is thoroughly drained, clean the base of the heater. Find products from Grundfos related to this subject. Generally, your Navien recirculation pump will produce a humming noise because of the wrong size primary loop, not purging the recirculation pump, or foreign materials getting into the pump. In compliance with California's . This serves two functions: You save water. With two pipes, you can create a loop between the water heater and faucets. Open the pressure relief valve. How? Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain. A water recirculating pump is also similar to this. Below, I will break down everything to stop the buzzing noise. Brand: Navien. Great article!! Use your pump when you want to use it. Using a corrosion-free flow sensor made of stainless steel is a better option. JavaScript is disabled. Close the isolation valves to the cold-supply and recirculation lines. So, keep reading till the end. By installing a hot water circulation pump, you will have a hot shower right away. An open or short thermistor can be the root cause of this problem. Air in the line: If there has been a power outage or air has gotten into the line for another reason, the pump can make a lot of noise. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a tasteless, colorless, odorless, and highly poisonous gas which can be deadly to humans in high concentrations. In fact, with a tankless water heater, you face double trouble (thats why youre not getting hot water fast): Because we need to wait longer for hot water in the case of tankless water heaters vs. traditional water heaters, it makes sense to minimize that time in tankless heaters even more. When the water is sufficiently hot, the temperature sensor will shut off the power to the recirculation pump to conserve energy. You must log in or register to reply here. I guess the recirculation line will be the only one that is copper. Sold by HVAC Pros and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. Below are different Navien water heater error codes and their solutions; Navien error code 003 how to fix indicates that there is an ignition failure in your unit. Eric Alvarez is an HVAC guy based in El Paso, Texas, United States. if your water heater has 4 connections (CW in; HW out; condensate; gas) then the recirculation occurs within the water heater - IMO don't see the benefit in this setup as the water in the HW distribution system doesn't see flow . Lets start by looking at how these pumps actually work: If it takes forever for the hot water to start running, it usually means that there is a long pipe between a boiler (or a hot water heater or tankless water heater) and the faucet. How Much Does 500 Watts Cost Per Hour? We hope we were able to help you out with our guide. The recirculation pump saves on water bills by reducing the time to get hot water. Will a Water-Saving Recirculation Pump Save Me Money? - Treehugger First, you need to consider Things to consider when sizing the busiest usage period or peak time. We will presume that youre buying a hot water circulation pump for a household of 4 and that each person wastes about 2 gallons of water per day (mean value of Oak Ridge National Laboratorys study). Depending on the size of the pump and installation difficulty, the average cost of a hot water recirculation pump costs anywhere from $200 to $800 (installed). Make sure that the drain hose will empty the scaling solution into the bucket. where does the recirc line tie come off the hot lines? To select a recirculation mode, you must set the DIP switches on the front panel, and set the position of the 2-way valve inside the water heater. You need to run white vinegar through the system, to descale the water heater. Examine and confirm the pressure sensor and wiring are in good condition. Our articles, products and services are for informational purposes. Reassemble the heater and turn on the hot and cold water valves. Examine the thermistors condition and pump wiring connectors. It sounds almost like cavitation or a magnet rubbing against the casing as the recirculating pump winds down. Start by turning off the service valves and removing the hoses. Thats 2,920 gallons of water per year wasted. Navien tankless water heater recirculation | 2016-04-01 | Plumbing and Next, hook hoses to the valves, then open them to drain the water. Full Recirculation Pump System - Going this route adds additional piping to your system, allowing for a "hot water loop" to be created, ensuring the water doesn't end up sitting and going cold in your pipes and instead is recirculated, ready for the next time you turn on the tap. Please see below for important warranty information and a list of models that this part fits. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Then what are we waiting for? It would be nice to get the hot water to the faucet especially the shower in the morning as quickly as possible. Then, turn it on again. If you add a powerful hot water circulation pump at the heater (not under the sink), the hot water will reach the faucet much faster. As well as any future additions, Usage of household gadgets that require hot water, Automatic dishwasher 14 gallons or 1.5 GPM, Washing machine 32 gallons to wash the clothes or 2 GPM. First, open and close the pressure relief valve, which is located near the units outlet. Here is a list of advantages associated with hot water circulating pumps: Now lets have a look at the disadvantages of these pumps: Needless to say, recirculation pumps are not free. Bosch Tankless Water Heater Troubleshooting [A Complete Guide], Bosch Tankless Water Heater Error Codes [Ultimate Guide], Bosch Tankless Water Heater Wont Ignite [7 Easy Solutions]. The setup is correct and the only two settings you need are P.12 for recirculation time and P.16 for length of recirculation line from farthest point in the house. It could be open or shorted. This may temporarily help to remedy the issue. The estimated annual operating cost of the Navien tankless water heater, based on the yearly estimated residential use per US Energy Department test criteria, is $191. The disadvantages of recirculating pumps include waiting for cold waters (its a less-known disadvantage), having to install additional wiring, and so on. I have alos checked my HeatBox settings to ensure the temp is set high enough for my domestic supply (set to around 120 degrees). Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot sometimes. This made me suspicious that water was coming from the mains. That means that this household wasted 8 gallons of water per day just waiting for hot water. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot, Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, Easy DIY Media Cabinet Build with Basic Tools, From Cast-Iron to Stainless-Steel: How to Replace Your Kitchen Sink, While theres no water in the pump, do not turn on the recirculating pump. (Per Hour, Month, Year), How Much Does A Tankless Water Heater Cost? I just hooked up the NR-20DU wired remote control ($80 from Fergusons) and programmed 3 on/off recirculating cycles based on family needs. Also, as I'm taking a closer look at it, I'm concerned that some key things may be amiss. The DIP switch setting has some problems. It will help you avoid common water heater issues and let you operate the unit smoothly. This depends on how long you leave it on and how often you use it. Otherwise, this will cause the shut-off valve to get damaged. This is where the timer and temperature sensor come in. Neither reason is likely to be correct but we would need a much more in depth knowledge of the hot water distribution system and the circulation line in particular. The water heater is set to 120 F (49 C) by default. On a side note, if your Grundfos circulating pump is making sounds, it may have air locks or installation problems. New build - tankless hot water heater - recirculation pump needed? - Houzz This item: Navien 30010780B Circulation Pump. However, the hot water had to travel from your water heater to the faucet for you to use. Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump - YouTube 0:00 / 4:21 Troubleshooting Navien NPE-240A Internal Recirculation Pump RCGooner2002 240 subscribers Subscribe. It clips on the side of the PCB board without screws and then you connect a ribbon cable to the PCB. Some pumps, in order to avoid needing a dedicated return path, will recirculate the water via the cold water supply, so getting some hot water from the cold supply would be normal in this case. It will make your water recirculating pump much smarter. Hello Frank, one of the disadvantages of recirculating pumps is that you have to wait for cold water a bit. Did you mount the contact switch next to the Navien? Tankless Water Heater Wire Size Calculator: What Gauge Wire (AWG)? To calculate the size of the heater, you will need to add up the amount of water required at a particular time. It depends on how the recirculation pump is installed, and some other factors, plumbers usually know this stuff pretty well. What Parts Are In The Hot Water Circulation Pump Kits? Where did you find that info? In large systems, however, it may be advantageous to use controlled pumps to enable adjustment of the flow when starting up the system and to be able to apply temperature control. Get a sump pump and connect the cold service hose to the sump pump. A hot water recirculating pump will save you money, especially if you have a larger family. The heating supply thermistor is defective. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages. and our Parts that will actually be used depend on what kind of hot water recirculation pump you have. If required, replace the thermistor. I mounted the contact switch inside the cabinet per the kit instructions. $197.08 $ 197. For example, you may damp it into a bathtub, pushing the water through the isolation side on hot. Then, tighten up the cap again once you remove all the air from the loop. Do not advertise or try to compare pricing. Then remove the cold water filter off located next to the cold water isolation valve. Navien tankless water heater recirculation March 31, 2016 At the push of a button, Navien 's HotButton accessory activates the internal recirculation pump and gas-fired burner to heat up the water in the supply lines. The recirculation pump is fixed on the water heater. (With Water Savings Analysis), Note On Tankless Water Heater Hot Water Recirculation Pumps (Double Trouble), How Much Electricity Does A Tankless Water Heater Use? Let the vinegar cycle through the cold side for 45 minutes. Actually the only real issue is the lack of isolation valve on the recirculation connection, resulting in the constant water supply to the water heater. $44.90. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! There are more options, for example- you can buy a wifi socket. if you do have an external recirc line BUT it was installed when the Navien , then see if you can find where the recirc line connects to the hot water line - maybe it's serving a portion of your fixtures and the other fixtures are not benefiting from the recirculation. Ensure the main gas supply valve is open. Navien Recirculation Pump Noise [4 Easy Solutions], 02. ($0.05 $0.22/h), How Much Does 1000 Watts Cost Per Hour? I kind of feel like he is trying to get away with something that wasnt installed properly but hopefully I am wrong. Go along the steps described below to set the recirculation settings. If a hot water faucet is open, you can adjust the temperature only from 98-110 F (37-43 C). Without the need for extra piping, this type of hot water circulation pump system also comes at a much lower cost. What You Should Know Before Shutting off the Water For example, if you have a person showering and another individual shaving. W2 Wire Thermostat Wiring (2nd Stage), Thermostat Wire Color Codes For 3-8 Wire Thermostats (Color-By-Color), How Many Therms Of Gas Per Month Is Normal? We do all the time-consuming research and testing for you. I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. There are several ways to do it. Working well so far. Why Its Important To Turn Off The Water Recirculating Pump? "The recirculating pump costs about the same as operating a 25-watt light bulb," says Umberto Griccino, a commercial plumber and HouseGrail consultant. Next, clean the dirt-trap. Start by removing it from the heater so you can clean it properly. It sounds awful and not like any other recirculating pump I've ever heard. It's unfortunate he's not around to explain all this to you. Hello Irving, Trutankless is an Arizona-based brand of tankless water heaters with built-in recirculation pumps. Do you want to know the details? Then replace the heater cover and turn the gas or power back on. air). I have a clog, When the faucet is on the unit is indicating flow rate of 1.4 GPM which seems plenty and the recirculation mode is set to external & always on. Allow it to dry for some time before fixing it again. How is an ETF fee calculated in a trade that ends in less than a year? It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. Why isn't my Navien tankless water heater performing as it should? I am contemplating getting the NPE-180A and controlling the pump with a remote control in each bathroom. We have to keep the valve on and slowly hot water comes out. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. That means that all the costs of the hot water circulation pump are covered by the water savings. 5.0 out of 5 stars 3 ratings. If the problem persists after reset, replace the APS as soon as possible. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 Now, you have to know the hows for reducing damage. The cold water inlet one thermistor is defective. = 4.5 x CFM x h (std. When its time to work with a recirculating pump, you should follow some instructions to avoid further hassles. You mentioned that in the summer months your can turn off the recirculation pump. He says both the master bath and the kitchen. Advantages and disadvantages of hot water circulation pumps. The cost of a separate recirculation pump would fall in the range of $200 and $500, depending on the size required. He has a good standing reputation for superior skills in heating, air conditioning, hot water tanks, and indoor air quality systems. 2. Navien's patented ComfortFlow system is the first to include a buffer tank, recirculation pump and fine-tuned controls into a tankless water heater, resolving the cold-water sandwich effect* and issues of minimal flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. This issue is more common in older heater models. Hopefully its clear which is which when Im down there. Make sure the major electrical cord is grounded correctly. Navien has an aftermarket add on hot point or something that lets you control when the recirc is on. The main sign of motherboard or control board failure is intermittent switching off and on. Heres the thing: Both cold and hot water need to be supplied using the same pipe. Ask Your Own HVAC Question b55db6.jpeg 6a7761.jpeg ee4ed0.jpeg cc7ba2.jpeg 8ec6a3.jpeg 32aa59.jpeg Make sure the exhaust pipe is not obstructed. Weve tried to include every concern you might have regarding turning off the water recirculating pump. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. However, the plumber branched this off into the circulation water inlet. . For example, if you get the tees backward, the recirculation pump will not function properly. Is a Hot Water Recirculating Pump Worth It? 10 Pros and Cons - Your H2Home Only 19 left in stock - order soon. However, if you want hot water fast, these on-demand heaters are not ideal. Navien NaviCirc Recirculation Valve Description How it works Specifications Dimensions For more information, please see our The timer has control over when the pump is working continuously. I bought the remote PB you referenced above and the specs on it say it uses 12 VDC, but I couldn't find anywhere whether the 12 V supplied by the Navien board is either AC or DC. You can turn off the recirculating pump in various ways. Navien NR-240A heating issues Heating Help: The Wall Ensure the recirculation pump was installed correctly. Maintaining Your Central Heating Pump | Living by HomeServe Here are four problems with these pump systems that you should be aware of. The process to take apart the fitting which holds the flow sensor to "blow" it out clean is arduous, requiring drainage of the system etc., and has not solved the problem. Our goal here at GridSub is to help you find viable solutions to different off-grid problems. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 Recirculate temp in is 67, temp out when just recirculating is 67. Another suggestion I can give you is to maintain and service your Navien water heater according to the manual. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Can this be moved to another sink in the house that is not used as often ? Get in touch with Navien technical support at 800-519-8794. We were advised of this upon installation. The pump saves this cold water and recirculates it in the hot water. Turning off the water recirculating pump isnt a big deal. Then, use the arrows to set the desired temperature. Examine the controllers condition and replace it if required. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. The error code E736 informs about the issue in cascade communication, and error code E740 indicates that the outdoor temperature sensor is not working correctly. Obviously, you might be wondering: If the recirculation pump loop is running continuously, youre probably expanding too much electricity just to get hot water faster. Also, make sure you get the 1- pipe for the horizontal manifold, which will help even out the flow of the recirculators. It can take anywhere from 10 seconds to 1 minute for the hot water to reach the faucet. These are the 3 most often recommended brands for tankless water heaters with recirculation pumps. Correcting Navien Tankless Hot Water Heater Installation, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Tankless water heater - not consistent hot water output, Plumbing Manifold Use With a Tankless Hot Water Heater, No hot water if hot water recirculator pump is shut off, warm water only when we replaced the hot water heater with a tankless heater. Pour two gallons of white vinegar into a 5gallons bucket. We have 6 Navien NR-210A manuals available for free PDF download: Service Manual, Operation & Installation Manual, Installation Manual, Owner's Operation Manual, Quick Installation Manual Navien NR-210A Service Manual (179 pages) NR/NP Series Tankless Gas Water Heater Brand: Navien | Category: Water Heater | Size: 21.79 MB Table of Contents I'm fairly handy with DIY plumbing, but not and expert and I know when I am out of my league. Here are some simple instructions on how to turn on your Navien tankless water heater. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. There are filters that prevent the sediment from entering the water flow. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. This time of year, we dont need to have instant hot water circulating so we turned off the pump. Make sure to follow the required instructions before and after youve turned it off for your safety. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Where does the circulation return line tie in, and where is this in relation to the Naviien unit, other fixtures, and appliances in the home? This comprehensive guide helps to make the operation and repair of your heater easier. rev2023.3.3.43278. And thats a wrap! The default setting is usually around 120 degrees Fahrenheit. I have 5 connections including the recirculation in. Navien 240A2 tankless help : r/Plumbing - reddit It also increases the gas bill. I bought the. The issue is most likely, the flow sensor inside the unit is not spinning correctly. Press the + (Up) or (Down) buttons until the desired temperature appears on display. Error Code E438 It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. Turns out that it was the temperature of the return water was high enough to stop the recirculation.

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